AbdielAbiram (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Ken Miller Owns

mohamedbongfish (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

i have explained this argument like 80 times to you. its tiring. god existence can be shown thorugh logic and conceptual analysis. logical deductions are not speculation, they cant be false! thats how logic works, take a class in it. read again, the whole thing, like 50 times. then comment again... once you understand. seriously.

DeflocculatedDentist (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Your assertions are rather ridiculous. You are obviously the one with the dogma. Your position is that "God must exist because he can't not exist." It's mere SPECULATION. There is no mathematical proof that god is necessary. 7 times 7 will always equal 49. Just because you say perfect existence is necessary doesn't make it TRUE. You speculate and speculate but don't provide EVIDENCE.

mohamedbongfish (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

thats ridiculous. 81 divided by 9 equals 9 neessarily but when i was ignorant of that fact as a 5 year old i could have easily asserted that it was false. same with atheists.. they just havent thought about it enough or dont want to. most atheists dont want to believe in god because they have dogma and so do you wahahahahazha

DeflocculatedDentist (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

If god existed out of conceptual necessity, there wouldn't be atheists in the first place.

mohamedbongfish (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

any way the world could have been would still have to include god. it might not have included you or me but it would have to include god. because he exists out of coneptual necessity

DeflocculatedDentist (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

So the reason god exists is because he can exist under any circumstance? I'm not trying to ARGUE what you just said, I'm trying to understand it more clearly.

mohamedbongfish (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

OH MY GOD. you dont read the things i say. i didnt say create all worlds, i said he exists in all possible worlds. i mean world in a broad sense. there is no way that anyhitng existing could not include god because he is the most perfect thing thinkable. the most perfect thing would have perfect existence, because that would make it more perfect than something that did not have perfect existence. perfect existence is necessary existence.. ie. existence in all possible worlds.

DeflocculatedDentist (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

The problem with your argument is that you don't say WHY. We know WHY 2 plus 2 equals 4. WHY is god necessary to create all worlds? Science has shown that he is not necessary. Didn't you take earth science in high school?

mohamedbongfish (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

just because YOU dont understand it doesnt mean it doesnt make any sense. there is no possible world in which god does not exist. he exists necessarily in all possible worlds. any way the world could have been must have included god. that is all that statement means. its like saying there is no way in any possible world could 2 plus 2 equal 5.