LVskywalker (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

One of the best videos I've ever seen on the topic of creationist falsehood!

mtheoryrules (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I have already told you what observations exist as empirical demonstration that directly refutes absolute determinism.Do your own home work.Could humans be wrong about the intrinsic nature of the universe, sure yeah we could be, but there is every reason to accept the probablistic aspect of our cosmos and no reason to reject.Rember a theory has to be falsified.You want me to prove it to you, but I get the impression that no standard of proof would sastify you.I think we are done here.

mtheoryrules (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Fine, look I really am not interested in a epistemological debate.As far as I am concerned when you can objectively empirically confirm an observation, then it is a fact.I am not sure what you want to believe, I do not care, the evidence speeks for itself.

fartingpreacher (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

where did you get that vid of dawkins pwning that guy? ted stevens is his name i think.

Hedning1390 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Please present the proof that it is probabilistic. The wave function only describes the states, just as the simple probability law and the number 50% only descriibes the coin, it does not govern it.

Hedning1390 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I don't know why but you seem to have difficulties differentiating facts from conclutions or theories. That gravity is the cause of objects falling to the ground is for example not a fact, it is a theory.And you seem very sure, too sure in fact. What's up with stating that "the only way is..."? Science is supposed to be self correcting. It can't be with people like you who believes in absolutes.

mtheoryrules (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

The only way to save absolute determinism is to appeal to the many-worlds interpretation, hidden variables interpretations has been thoroughly refuted and demonstrated false.With the many-worlds interpretation you could say that every thing that can happen does happen and thus the omnivores is deterministic.But we experience but one universe, and thus we are subject to a probabilistic experience of physical reality. If you accept the epistemological method of science.

mtheoryrules (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

The postition is not random, it's probablistic, and there is a law that governs it, that principle is expressed as a probability wave. The reason for that conclusion is because it has been demonstrated, you do not have to like it, but it is not a hypothesis that btw is wrong.It is a demonstrable fact.If it was not quantum tunneling and casmir effect, to name a few observations would not have been predicted as a result of the consequence of the probable nature of our universe.

Hedning1390 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

That the coin landed heads up is a fact. That you will get approx 50% heads is a fact. The conclution that it is just probability and not some law that determines the outcome is not a fact, it is a theory or a hypothesis that btw is wrong.You can look at the particle and see that yes, the location seem random. You can look at tunnelling effects and conclude that it must be random. What I am saying that the reason for such conclution might just be a lack of understanding.

mtheoryrules (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Um the universe is probabilistic, it is a demonstrable fact.What are you having trouble understanding, it does not require belief the conclusion is drawn from direct observation, what else can be said to be fact?The universe we inhabit is not deterministic, the location of a particle of matter or energy is probablistic, not deterministic.This applies to our universe indistupably by virtue of observation of physical reality.I am sorry but this is the reality of our universe, like or not.